Salesforce Reports 10.8% Revenue Growth and Raises Fiscal 2027 Outlook; Shares Rose 12% to 14% in After-Hours Trading
The company said Agentforce annual recurring revenue passed $1.5 billion, while most of its $300 million guidance raise came from two pending acquisitions rather than existing products.
A Bad Year, One Good Quarter, and a $2.6 Billion Question Mark
Salesforce closed out Wednesday, August 26, 2026, by handing Wall Street two numbers at once. Revenue for its fiscal second quarter hit $11.345 billion, up 10.83% from a year earlier[1][6]. And net income jumped 73.31%, to $4.844 billion[3][6]. Those two figures should move together. They didn't, and the gap between them is where this story actually lives.
Shares jumped hard after the close. Reuters put the after-hours move at 12%; CNBC clocked it at 14% at a different moment that evening[3][5]. Both are snapshots of a stock still trading, not a final verdict, but either way it was the best night Salesforce had had in a while. Going in, the stock was down roughly 24% to 25% for the year, and had been down more than 40% at its low in June[9][15].
The company also raised its full-year revenue forecast to a range of $46.1 billion to $46.4 billion[1][6]. On the surface, that reads like a company firing on all cylinders. Underneath, the quarter is really a fight over what's producing the growth, and whether it will last.
What Nine Words on a Press Release Don't Say
Start with the net income jump. A 73.31% rise sounds like the core business took off. It didn't grow anywhere near that fast. The real driver was a $2.6 billion gain on strategic investments, mostly Salesforce's stake in the AI company Anthropic[3][6].
That gain is what's called a mark-to-market adjustment: when a private company you've invested in becomes more valuable, accounting rules let you book that increase as profit, even though you haven't sold anything and no product changed hands. It can just as easily reverse if the private valuation falls later. It also sits alongside a real business relationship — Salesforce and Anthropic just expanded their partnership under a new banner called "Claudeforce," to build Claude's AI models into Salesforce's platform[3][12]. So Salesforce is simultaneously a large investor in Anthropic and a commercial partner, which is worth knowing before treating the investment gain as separate from the product story.
Strip out that gain, and the underlying business still grew about 10.8%, which is genuinely the company's fastest pace in some time — revenue growth had run below 10% for six straight quarters before this recent pickup[6][10]. That's a real number. It's just not the same number CNBC and Reuters were reporting when they said net income rose 73%.
The Product Everyone's Talking About Is Still 3% of the Business
The other headline figure is Agentforce, Salesforce's line of AI products that act as automated agents inside a company's systems. Annual recurring revenue for Agentforce — the yearly value of subscription contracts currently running — passed $1.5 billion, up more than 240% from a year earlier[1]. Combined with a related product called Data 360, that AI-and-data revenue reached almost $3.9 billion[1].
A 240% growth rate sounds enormous, and it is real. But it's also the kind of number a young, small product line produces almost automatically — doubling from a small base is easy; doubling from a big one isn't. Set against the roughly $46 billion Salesforce expects to bring in this year, $1.5 billion works out to about 3% of total revenue[1]. Whether AI products can eventually offset any lost revenue from Salesforce's traditional, per-employee software subscriptions is a question about the other 97% of the business. This one quarter doesn't settle it either way.
There's a second wrinkle in the guidance raise itself. Salesforce lifted its full-year forecast by $300 million. About $200 million of that came from two pending acquisitions, Contentful and Fin, that haven't even closed yet — only about $100 million came from existing products like Agentforce, Data 360, and Slack actually selling better[6]. A guidance raise built two-thirds on acquisitions reads differently than one built on existing products outperforming.
Two Businessmen, Two True Stories, Same Set of Facts
This is where the argument that's dogged Salesforce all year comes into focus. Investors have spent 2026 worried about something nicknamed the "SaaSpocalypse": the fear that if AI agents can do the work people currently do inside software programs, companies will need fewer paid logins, or "seats," and revenue for seat-based software companies like Salesforce could shrink even as customers stay happy[15]. That fear helped cut roughly $2 trillion from software companies' combined stock market value over the past year[15]. It's also why Salesforce's own price-to-earnings ratio — basically what investors are willing to pay for a dollar of the company's profit — fell from about 20 in January to around 11 at the June low[9].
CEO Marc Benioff calls that fear "nonsense"[4]. His evidence: a metric called cRPO, or current remaining performance obligations, which tracks contracts customers have already signed but haven't yet been billed for — a forward look at demand rather than money already in hand. It grew 14% in constant currency, to $33.5 billion, which Salesforce says is its best new-order growth in four years[6]. Signed contracts are hard to fake, and Benioff points out that nine of the ten leading AI companies use Salesforce and Slack, with their spending up 435% year over year — evidence, he argues, that AI companies buying his software instead of shrinking their footprint disproves the idea that AI kills demand for it[4].
Skeptics don't dispute those numbers. They dispute what they prove. A bear position is that one quarter of strong bookings doesn't resolve a multi-year structural question, especially when a third of the guidance raise came from products already for sale and two-thirds came from acquisitions[6]. And they have a specific piece of evidence sitting inside Salesforce's own numbers: the company's internal support staff has fallen from about 9,000 employees to roughly 5,000, which Benioff has directly attributed to Agentforce being deployed internally, while engineering headcount has stayed flat near 15,000 for about two years for the same reason[16]. Separately, Salesforce told officials in Washington and California it's cutting 133 more roles effective October 5, its third round of layoffs this year; the filings for those cuts don't mention AI at all[10]. Critics read the internal numbers as the company doing to itself the exact thing they warned it would do to other software firms.
Both sides are looking at the same fact — fewer support jobs, flat engineering headcount, AI doing more of the work — and reaching opposite conclusions about what it means for Salesforce's customers and its own stock.
A Beat, Except When It Isn't One
Even the size of the earnings "beat" turns out to depend on whose math you use. Non-GAAP earnings per share came in at $5.90[1][6]. CNBC, citing data from LSEG, reported that figure as in line with what analysts expected — not a beat at all, just meeting the number[3]. Meanwhile, some aggregator sites compared the same $5.90 against a different consensus figure of $3.27 and calculated an 80% "beat"[6]. Revenue's actual beat over Street estimates was a modest 0.25%[6].
No outlet found in this review reconciled those two competing consensus numbers for readers. That gap matters because it shaped how the story got told: outlets working from the $3.27 comparison had a much more dramatic headline available to them than outlets working from LSEG's number.
Coverage split in other predictable ways, too. CNBC put the Anthropic investment gain directly in its headline and flagged the in-line EPS[3], a more tempered framing than most. Reuters credited the guidance raise simply to "AI product momentum" without mentioning that two-thirds of it came from pending acquisitions[5]. Fortune's headline flatly declared "the SaaSpocalypse that wasn't," treating a multi-year open question as settled by one quarter's results[7]. Trade outlet SiliconANGLE went further, describing a "crushing earnings beat" despite the modest 0.25% revenue margin and in-line EPS[8]. Retail-investor sites like the Motley Fool and Benzinga framed the whole event as a referendum on whether to trust Benioff's confidence, rather than as a report on the underlying business[9][15].
What's Left Standing After the Rally
Strip away the framing fights, and a few things are true no matter who's telling the story. Salesforce is an $46-billion-a-year company growing at roughly 11%, with $33.5 billion in signed business not yet booked as revenue[1][6]. It's buying some of that growth through acquisitions as well as building it organically[6]. It's also shrinking parts of its own workforce even as revenue climbs, with more cuts arriving in October[10].
And despite Wednesday's jump, the stock remains well below where it started 2026. A 12% to 14% rebound after a roughly 25% decline for the year is a bounce, not a new high[9][15]. The underlying question that drove that decline — whether AI agents will eventually shrink the number of paid software seats companies need — is still open. One strong quarter of bookings didn't close it, and neither side involved has much reason to say so out loud.
Summary
Salesforce reported its fiscal 2027 second-quarter results after the market closed on Wednesday, August 26, 2026[1]. Revenue was $11.345 billion, up 10.83% from a year earlier[6]. That is the company's fastest growth in some time; revenue growth had run below 10% for six straight quarters before recently re-accelerating[10]. The company also raised its full-year revenue forecast to a range of $46.1 billion to $46.4 billion[1][6]. Shares jumped in extended trading. Reuters put the move at 12%; CNBC put it at 14%[3][5]. Both are readings taken at different moments in after-hours trading, not a closing price.
The headline number for investors was Agentforce, Salesforce's AI product line. Annual recurring revenue, or ARR — the yearly value of subscription contracts the company currently has running — passed $1.5 billion for Agentforce, up more than 240% from a year ago[1]. Together with the Data 360 product, that AI-and-data ARR reached nearly $3.9 billion[1]. For scale: $1.5 billion is real money, but it is about 3% of the roughly $46 billion in revenue Salesforce expects this year.
The genuine dispute is not whether the quarter was good. It is what the quarter proves. For most of 2026, investors sold software stocks on a theory nicknamed the "SaaSpocalypse": if AI agents can do a knowledge worker's job, companies stop buying per-employee software seats, and Salesforce's business model breaks[15]. At its June low the stock was down more than 40% for the year and its price-to-earnings ratio had fallen to about 11, from roughly 20 in January[9]. CEO Marc Benioff says the quarter shows that theory was "nonsense" from the start[4]. Skeptics say one strong quarter does not settle a multi-year question, and they point to details inside the release.
Those details are where the reporting diverges. Of the $300 million guidance raise, Salesforce attributed about $100 million to organic strength in Agentforce, Data 360 and Slack, and about $200 million to the pending Contentful and Fin acquisitions[6]. Separately, Salesforce booked a $2.6 billion gain on strategic investments, tied largely to its stake in the AI company Anthropic — which is a big reason GAAP net income rose 73.31% to $4.844 billion[3][6]. And the size of the earnings "beat" depends on whose estimate you use: CNBC, using LSEG consensus, called the $5.90 adjusted EPS in line with expectations, while some aggregator recaps compared it to a $3.27 figure and called it an 80% beat[3][6].
The Event
On Wednesday, August 26, 2026, after U.S. markets closed, Salesforce released results for the second quarter of its fiscal year 2027, the three months ended July 31, 2026[1]. The company reported revenue of $11.345 billion, up 10.83% year over year, non-GAAP diluted earnings per share of $5.90, and GAAP net income of $4.844 billion[1][6]. It raised full-year fiscal 2027 revenue guidance to $46.1 billion to $46.4 billion and said Agentforce annual recurring revenue had passed $1.5 billion[1]. Salesforce shares rose sharply in extended trading, reported at 12% by Reuters and 14% by CNBC at different points that evening[3][5].
Undisputed Facts
- Salesforce reported second-quarter fiscal 2027 revenue of $11.345 billion, up 10.83% year over year and about 0.25% above Street estimates[6].
- Non-GAAP diluted earnings per share were $5.90; CNBC reported that figure as in line with the LSEG analyst consensus[3][6].
- GAAP net income was $4.844 billion, up 73.31% year over year, and the quarter included a $2.6 billion gain on strategic investments tied to Salesforce's stake in Anthropic[3][6].
- Current remaining performance obligations — contracted business not yet recognized as revenue — reached $33.5 billion, up 14% in constant currency[6].
- Agentforce annual recurring revenue passed $1.5 billion, up more than 240% year over year; combined Agentforce and Data 360 ARR was nearly $3.9 billion[1].
- Salesforce raised full-year fiscal 2027 revenue guidance to $46.1 billion to $46.4 billion, a $300 million increase in constant currency, of which about $200 million was attributed to the pending Contentful and Fin acquisitions[1][6].
- Salesforce and Anthropic announced an expanded partnership branded "Claudeforce" to integrate Claude models into Salesforce's platform[3][12].
- Salesforce stock was down roughly 24% to 25% in 2026 before this report, and was down more than 40% at its June low[9][15].
- Salesforce notified Washington and California officials that it would cut 133 roles effective October 5, 2026, its third round of cuts this year; the filings did not cite AI[10].
The Pressure
Strip away the moralizing and blame. What structural realities persist regardless of which narrative wins?
- A narrative Salesforce must break
- Salesforce's problem in 2026 was never a revenue collapse — revenue grew all year. It was a multiple collapse. Investors decided the seat-based model was structurally doomed and re-priced the stock from roughly 20 times earnings to about 11 at the June low[9]. A company cannot fix a multiple with a press release. It can only produce quarters that make the bear thesis harder to hold. That is what this release is engineered to do, and it is why the AI growth rates lead and the acquisition-funded portion of the guidance raise does not[1][6].
- Percentages are large because the base is small
- Agentforce ARR growing 240% is a real number, but growth rates on a young product line are mechanically enormous. $1.5 billion against roughly $46 billion in expected annual revenue is about 3%[1]. Whether AI offsets seat erosion is a question about the other 97%, and this quarter does not answer it.
- The Anthropic stake is a second business
- Salesforce booked a $2.6 billion gain on strategic investments, driven by its Anthropic position[3][6]. That is a mark-to-market gain on a private company's rising valuation. It flows through GAAP net income — which is why net income rose 73.31% while revenue rose 10.83% — but it sells no software and can reverse if AI valuations fall[6]. It also creates a real conflict of interest to note: Salesforce is both a large investor in Anthropic and now a commercial partner via "Claudeforce"[3][12].
- Internal deployment is the honest test case
- Salesforce is its own most-cited Agentforce customer. Support headcount fell from about 9,000 to roughly 5,000 and engineering has been flat near 15,000 for about two years, both attributed by Benioff to AI[16]. This is simultaneously the company's best proof that agents work and the critics' best proof that agents cut jobs. Both sides are reading the same fact correctly.
Material realitySalesforce is a roughly $46-billion-a-year software company growing about 11%, with $33.5 billion in signed-but-unrecognized contracts and re-accelerating bookings[1][6]. It is buying growth as well as building it — Contentful and Fin account for about $200 million of the $300 million guidance raise[6]. It is shrinking parts of its own workforce while revenue grows, with 133 more roles cut effective October 5[10]. Its stock, even after a 12% to 14% after-hours jump, remains well below its 2026 highs; the move is a rebound within a year-to-date decline of roughly a quarter, not a breakout to new records[9][15]. And the central question the 2026 selloff was about — whether AI agents shrink the number of software seats enterprises buy — is a multi-year question that a single quarter of bookings cannot resolve in either direction.
Narrative as a weaponSalesforce is the most active narrative-shaper here, and it is being explicit about it: Benioff wants you to believe the "SaaSpocalypse" was a media-and-Wall-Street invention that has now been refuted, and he is using the AI labs' own spending on Salesforce as the proof. Trade press and much of the market commentariat adopted that frame within hours, some of it in the outlet's own voice. Short sellers and AI-disruption bears want you to believe one quarter of bookings, two-thirds of a guidance raise bought through acquisitions, and a $2.6 billion paper gain on a private AI stake add up to a good quarter that leaves the structural question untouched. Analysts on both sides have public track records riding on it. The one number that cuts against every promotional framing is the calendar: the stock is up sharply from Wednesday and still down about a quarter for 2026.
How Each Side Sees It
Each major actor’s view — how it frames things, its underlying incentive, and how it’s materially affected. Tap a side to read it.
Frames it asThe company's core argument is that AI agents expand its business rather than replace it. Benioff's case: enterprises cannot deploy useful AI agents without clean, governed customer data and workflow systems — which is exactly what Salesforce sells. He points to Agentforce ARR growing more than 240% and to cRPO up 14%, the strongest net new order value in four years, as evidence customers are signing bigger, longer deals, not smaller ones[1][6]. His sharpest rhetorical move is the customer list: he says nine of the ten leading AI companies use Salesforce and Slack, and their spending is up 435% year over year[4]. If AI were killing seat-based software, he argues, the AI labs themselves would not be the fastest-growing buyers. He calls the "SaaSpocalypse" thesis "nonsense" and Wall Street's fears "dead wrong"[4][9].
WhySalesforce needs to break a narrative that cut its market value hard in 2026 and compressed its price-to-earnings ratio from roughly 20 to about 11 at the June low[9]. Re-rating the stock matters for acquisition currency, for employee compensation, and for Benioff's own standing after a year in which Salesforce was among the worst Dow performers[15].
Impact on themShares rose 12% to 14% in after-hours trading on the report[3][5]. The company raised guidance to $46.1 billion to $46.4 billion[1]. It is also mid-restructuring: internal support headcount fell from about 9,000 to roughly 5,000 as Agentforce was deployed internally, and 133 more roles are being cut in October[10][16].
Frames it asTheir case is not that Salesforce is a bad company. It is that the pricing model is exposed. Traditional software is sold per seat — a fixed monthly fee per employee with a login. If an AI agent does the work of several licensed users, the customer needs fewer seats, and revenue falls even if the customer is happy. Bears note roughly $2 trillion in software market value was erased over the past twelve months on this logic[15]. Their strongest specific point about this quarter: $1.5 billion in Agentforce ARR is about 3% of expected full-year revenue, so the AI line is not yet big enough to offset seat erosion in the other 97%. They also note that two-thirds of the $300 million guidance raise came from acquisitions, not from products Salesforce already sells[6]. And Salesforce's own internal cuts — support staff down from about 9,000 to about 5,000 — are, in their reading, a live demonstration that agents replace seats[16].
WhyMany are investors positioned short or underweight software, or analysts who called the 2026 selloff. They need the structural thesis to hold beyond one quarter's bookings.
Impact on themA 12% to 14% one-day move against a position is costly. But the stock remains well below its highs even after the jump, so the drawdown thesis is not yet broken by price[9][15].
Frames it asAnalysts who stayed positive argue the market confused timing with direction. Wedbush's Dan Ives has said investors overstated how fast AI would displace incumbents and underrated how quickly big platforms adapt[15]. Their evidence in this print is cRPO, not revenue. Current remaining performance obligations measure contracts already signed but not yet billed as revenue — a forward look at demand. It grew 14% in constant currency to $33.5 billion, a point above the company's own guidance, and represented the best net new annual order value in four years[6]. That is hard to fake with accounting, since it reflects signed customer commitments. Citigroup raised its target to $204 from $187 on August 18, ahead of the print[15]; CNBC's Investing Club raised its price target after results[14].
WhyCoverage credibility. Analysts who kept buy ratings through a 40% drawdown need the recovery to validate the call.
Impact on themPrice targets moved up after the report[14]. The stock's cheapness going in — a P/E near 11 at the June low versus about 20 in January — is central to the bull case that the risk was already priced[9].
Frames it asTheir argument is that the two stories in this earnings report belong together, not apart. Revenue is growing 10.8% and the company is buying back stock and raising guidance — while cutting jobs for the third time this year[6][10]. Benioff himself has said support headcount went from roughly 9,000 to about 5,000 because of Agentforce, and that engineering has stayed flat near 15,000 for two years because AI made engineers more productive[16]. Critics say that is the clearest available answer to whether AI agents replace workers, and it comes from the CEO, not from a bear's model. They also note the October filings for 133 roles say nothing about AI at all — which they read as a company avoiding the word in the one document that carries legal weight[10].
WhyJob security and severance terms, and, for advocates, establishing that AI-driven displacement is happening now and should be named as such in required layoff notices.
Impact on them133 roles are being cut effective October 5, 2026, including 59 in Washington state — a small share of roughly 80,000 employees, but the third round this year[10]. Earlier 2026 rounds hit staff on Agentforce itself, MuleSoft and Marketing Cloud[16].
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The Bias Ledger average rating 5.1
The same story, as framed by outlets across the spectrum, ordered least to most biased. The bias score (1 = straight, 10 = heavily spun) is an AI assessment of that framing — click an outlet to see its track record. The tell is the word choice or omission that reveals the angle.
| Outlet | Vantage | Bias | How they frame it | The tell |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| CNBC | U.S. center to center-left, business desk | 3 | "Salesforce stock jumps 14% on AI growth and Anthropic investment gain" | Among the few to put the $2.6 billion Anthropic gain in the headline, and the only one found that flagged adjusted EPS as in line with LSEG consensus rather than a beat. That is a de-hyping choice. But CNBC also runs a separate Investing Club piece raising its own price target on the same stock the same day, which is a commercial position stated alongside the news. |
| Reuters | International wire, institutionally centrist | 3 | "Salesforce raises annual revenue forecasts on AI product momentum" | Straight and narrow. Attributes the move to "AI product momentum" and cites 12% in extended trading. The omission is the acquisition-funded two-thirds of the guidance raise, which makes "raises forecasts on AI momentum" read cleaner than the split supports. |
| The Motley Fool | U.S. retail-investor publisher; subscription stock-picking business model | 5 | "Marc Benioff Says Wall Street's Fears That AI Will Kill Salesforce Are 'Dead Wrong,' Even as CRM Stock Has Fallen Over 25% in 2026. Should Investors Bet on His Conviction?" | Published August 21, before the print. Frames the question as whether to trust a CEO's conviction — a stock-picking frame, not a reporting one. To its credit it foregrounds the 25% decline rather than burying it. |
| Al Jazeera | Qatari state-funded | 5 | "Salesforce lays off thousands despite strong earnings report" — note this is from September 3, 2025, not coverage of the August 2026 quarter | The standing frame is the pairing of strong results with job cuts, with "despite" carrying the judgment. Included here to show how the same company reads from a labor-first vantage; readers should not mistake it for reaction to this week's results. |
| Fortune | U.S. center-left business | 6 | "The SaaSpocalypse that wasn't – how Salesforce, Booking and IBM are thriving with AI" | Declares a multi-year structural question settled on one quarter's data, in the headline, using "thriving." The framing device is a named academic (Sonnenfeld) delivering a verdict the reporting itself cannot establish. |
| SiliconANGLE | U.S. enterprise-tech trade press; revenue depends on the vendor ecosystem it covers | 7 | "Salesforce scoffs at SaaSpocalypse fears with a crushing earnings beat" | "Scoffs" and "crushing" adopt the company's posture as the outlet's own voice. Calling it a "crushing beat" is doing real work given revenue exceeded estimates by 0.25% and EPS was in line by CNBC's consensus. |
| TIKR | U.S. retail investment-data blog, promotional to its own terminal product | 7 | "Salesforce's Q2 Earnings Beat by a Mile. The Guidance Raise Might Matter More." | Source of the "80.38% EPS beat" figure, derived from a $3.27 consensus that CNBC's LSEG data contradicts. "Beat by a mile" is built on a comparison number no major wire used. Notably, the same piece is the clearest source on the $100 million organic / $200 million acquisition split in the guidance raise — so it is both the least reliable and one of the most useful entries here. |
References
- Salesforce Delivers Record Second Quarter Fiscal 2027 Results — Salesforce · The company itself — primary source, promotional by design
- Salesforce, Inc. Form 8-K Exhibit 99.1, Q2 FY2027 — U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (EDGAR) · Federal regulatory filing — primary source
- Salesforce stock jumps 14% on AI growth and Anthropic investment gain — CNBC · U.S. center to center-left business news, owned by Comcast/NBCUniversal
- Salesforce CEO Marc Benioff says the 'SaaSpocalypse' is nonsense. Here's why — CNBC · U.S. center to center-left business news
- Salesforce raises annual revenue forecasts on AI product momentum — Reuters · International wire service, institutionally centrist
- Salesforce's Q2 Earnings Beat by a Mile. The Guidance Raise Might Matter More. — TIKR · Retail investment-data blog promoting its own product; consensus figures differ from LSEG
- The SaaSpocalypse that wasn't – how Salesforce, Booking and IBM are thriving with AI — Fortune · U.S. center-left business magazine
- Salesforce scoffs at SaaSpocalypse fears with a crushing earnings beat — SiliconANGLE · U.S. enterprise-tech trade press; revenue tied to the vendor ecosystem it covers
- Marc Benioff Says Wall Street's Fears That AI Will Kill Salesforce Are 'Dead Wrong,' Even as CRM Stock Has Fallen Over 25% in 2026 — The Motley Fool · U.S. retail-investor publisher; subscription stock-picking business model
- Salesforce is cutting 133 more jobs. The filings don't mention AI — The Next Web · European tech publication, generally skeptical of vendor claims
- Salesforce lays off thousands despite strong earnings report (September 3, 2025) — Al Jazeera · Qatari state-funded broadcaster
- Salesforce leaps on Q2 financial results; reveals partnership with Anthropic — Seeking Alpha · U.S. crowd-sourced investor platform; contributor-written, positions often undisclosed
- Salesforce Q2 FY27 slides: AI drives triple-digit ARR growth — Investing.com · Commercial financial-data site summarizing company investor materials
- We're raising our price target on Salesforce after results defy 'SaaSpocalypse' — CNBC · CNBC Investing Club — a paid subscription product holding positions in the stock
- Salesforce Stock Down 24%: Can Q2 Earnings Turn The Tide? — Benzinga · U.S. retail-trader financial media
- Last Month, Salesforce Announced It Hit $1.2 Billion in AI Revenue—Now It's Laying Off Staff — Inc. · U.S. business magazine aimed at founders; skeptical-of-big-tech framing